Teaching Coming of Age: Exploring Literature and Agency with #DisruptTexts Co-founder Dr. Kimberly Parker

KAREN SCHER: Hello, and welcome. My name is Karen Scher and I'm a senior program associate in the New York office of Facing History & Ourselves. I'm so glad that you could join us today.

I'm going to start briefly with a video to acclimate you to this webinar.

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KAREN SCHER: I'd like to start just by introducing what our agenda will be for today. We'll start with some introductions, and then we'll have what hopefully is a wonderful conversation with Dr. Kimberly Parker. And after that, we will invite questions from the community and go into a Q&A. And, finally, we'll tell you a little bit about how you can continue to engage with Facing History & Ourselves.

Stories have the power to transform the way young people see themselves and others. Today, we'll be joined by Dr. Kimberly Parker. We'll discuss the process of choosing texts with a focus on equity and voice, as well as creating classroom spaces for exploring literature through a critical and ethical lens.

Before we dive in, I'd like to briefly introduce Facing History, particularly for those of you who are joining us for the first time. This is our mission statement-- Facing History & Ourselves uses lessons of history to challenge teachers and their students to stand up to bigotry and hate. Our approach includes three points on this pedagogical triangle.

We aspire to create classrooms rooted in intellectual rigor, emotional engagement, and ethical reflection to prepare students to be informed, civic participants. Our professional development and our resource collections help teachers bring this to their classroom approaches.

Like many organizations, Facing History is troubled by the current movement in which state-level legislative and other actions seek to define what and how American history is taught in public schools across our country. We believe such efforts while framed with the objective of limiting, quote unquote, "indoctrination," are harmfully attempting to prevent teachers and students from having the honest and knowledge-based conversations that are the hallmark of a rigorous, humanities and civics education.

For now, it's unclear how these laws and efforts will be enforced or if these laws are even constitutional. Regardless, Facing History's approach is, and has always been, to support teachers as you help students learn to wrestle with complex concepts, to consider historical facts rigorously, and to develop the ethical and moral lenses with which to decide what they think and believe. Encouraging students to learn about race and racism in US history is even more important now than ever.

So thank you for being here with Facing History today and for continuing to lead your classrooms with honesty and truth. Let's get started.

So it is such a pleasure to welcome Dr. Kimberly Parker today. Myself, as a self-professed literature nerd and formerly an ELA and humanities teacher, I have been deeply moved and changed by Dr. Parker's work with the grassroots group she cofounded-- Disrupt Texts.

Disrupt Texts is a crowd-sourced grassroots effort by teachers for teachers to challenge the traditional canon in order to create a more inclusive, representative, and equitable language arts curriculum that our students deserve. It's shaken up everything that I thought I knew about teaching in the best possible ways.

Dr. Parker is the director of the Crimson Summer Academy at Harvard University, as we mentioned, a cofounder of Disrupt Texts, and a former high school English teacher and instructor in the Boston area. She is deeply committed to the success of young people of color, particularly those underrepresented and misunderstood by those who refuse to truly know how brilliant and of promise these young folks are.

I can't wait for you to learn from her wisdom and excellence. Dr. Parker, thank you so much for joining us today.

KIMBERLY PARKER: Oh, thank you, Karen. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

KAREN SCHER: It is our pleasure. So we're going to dive right in. We have lots of questions to talk about. So let's start here.

So some of the folks who are joining us on this webinar are part of our Coming of Age in a Complex World seminar that's also taking place this week. During the seminar, we asked everyone to complete what we call a life roadmap. Asking the question, what key moments have shaped your education journey? Could you tell us a little bit about your roadmap? What are a few key moments that shaped your education journey?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Oh, wow. I love this question. And what a great way to sort of get people to think about their lives.

I think there are a couple that stand out. One, I was raised on a farm by my grandparents in Kentucky. And what I remember is that my grandmother taught me to read. I remember that my uncles and my grandfather were literate. We read a lot. And it was that early exposure to text, broadly defined, that helped me to know that what having a really robust reading life meant.

I think in terms of other moments, you sort of skip ahead. Kentucky, it's an interesting place. And I had integrated friend groups. I had moments and opportunities where I just sort of had to figure it out-- lots of failures too.

I remember one of those big ones was not getting into some sort of like honors-- it was like a magnet program in my high school. And I remember that that sort of changed my trajectory. Just because it was like-- you had to do well on a standardized test, and I did not. And I just remember that-- actually, it was an opportunity because it opened me up for other things-- like different activities. But it sort of changed how I thought about myself.

And then also sort of figuring out how to go to college. Again, my grandparents were working class and were essentially like, you can do it. And so I went to school in Maine because they came to my high school. I went to Colby. And it was just sort of having people along the way who said, I don't know, you'll figure it out. That's what I did. I went to college.

And I just sort of think about if I had people-- like, mentorship is really important to me now, and thinking about how do we mentor young people through because I did have these moments of success for sure, but many of them were happy accidents because I was just like, I don't know. This looks good. I'll try it.

So those are like the roadmap. And then sort of how I got here is just because I wasn't afraid to try things. And I wasn't afraid to fail because failure sort of goes with it. But here I am.

KAREN SCHER: I love that. And can you say a little bit about how, in your life roadmap did you get into the classroom?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah. It's really interesting because I did not necessarily go right into teaching. I had teachers who always said, you should be a teacher. And I was like, hmm, no. But I had done a lot of things. I was like working in tech and other parts of the world until-- I had an old boss who said, hey, come to Boston. I had been back in Kentucky, and I came to Boston.

And then I had reached the point where I felt like I could sort of catch my breath. And then I looked around and I said, OK, so what's the a thread? A thread is that people have said, you should go into teaching. And now at age, whatever, maybe late 20s, I had the time and space to do that. And then went to teacher school at Boston College and started teaching from that moment on.

But I did lots of other things before I became a teacher. And I think that that helped me to sort of understand the capacity and the possibility of teaching, and also helped me to sort of guide conversations with young people about how to get where they want to get. It's not a linear path, and that's OK.

KAREN SCHER: And I know you just mentioned-- you know, I know now you do a lot of mentorship yourself. But was there someone else on your education journey, maybe as you were getting into the classroom, that was a real mentor to you?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah, right? You know, you realize people do lots of informal mentoring. I've had informal mentors all my life. But the one that really changed my life was Dr. Teresa Perry who I met when I was doing my student teaching and gave me a way for understanding what was happening in my classroom.

Because I would say, I'm reading these things, and they're saying that Black boys don't like to read, but my kids are reading. My Black boys are reading. My Latinx boys are reading. And she was able to latch me on to these rich historical traditions that Black people have always had. So she gave me the language. And then also has been-- she mentors me to this day. I'm so fortunate.

But she's been able to say, you should consider this. She was the one who said, you know you are really curious and you're interested, and you should write about your research. She's always been good about saying, if you really want to own your practice, you have to write about it. So she was like, OK, you're writing, now go to grad school. Consider that.

And so I went and I pursued my PhD. And I was also mentored by Dr. Violet Harris and Dr. Arlit Willis at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Who, again, continue to mentor me to this day.

And I've just been mentored by these amazing Black women who-- like, they'll do it for anyone. And I was just fortunate that they have done and continue to do it for me and also show me what it means and helps me to do it for other people.

KAREN SCHER: That's so beautiful. Thank you. So and as one of the co-founders of Disrupt Texts along with three other rock star amazing teachers, I know you've thought a lot about, in the classroom, the process of text selection. And so what I'd love to hear a little bit about is what kind of reflection might teachers want to engage in before they choose the text?

So I know a lot of teachers jump right to like, OK, how am I going to cultivate a book list this year? What book am I going to teach for second, third? Could you give some advice or guidance about like what's the step before that? What might teachers want to reflect on before they choose the texts?

KIMBERLY PARKER: And I will say that many of my comments are sort of couched in experience. I used to jump right in. I used to say, oh, my God, I love this book. I want to teach it. Oh, my goodness, I've been waiting forever to teach this. I can't wait to teach it.

And, really, the stuff that I forgot-- I know now, practice, experience-- is to think about the kids. What is it that the kids need at this moment and what books or texts do they need to grapple with, to read, to see themselves reflected in? And what are you going to do with it?

I feel like texts can find us at particular moments and also help us to understand and to make meaning but can also sort of do the opposite based on what we try to do with them. So I always try to start with the kids now.

Even thinking about the young people I'm working with the summer, they're coming off about two years of being online and have not necessarily read full-length works. But they need to. And so there's a couple of negotiations you have to do.

Of course, we want them reading like those core texts in the junior year. But they're not even reading period. So what do they need to get their jumpstart back on, or at least to sort of rev up whatever they've been doing? They've been reading lots online.

So we picked some YA books. We picked some contemporary texts. We picked some nonfiction books. And we gave them choice because, still, kids want to choose what they read. And so that's what they need at this moment-- to do the things.

And you can still do all the things-- analysis, writing about it in ways that are powerful and transformational-- but you have to get them reading first. And you have to think about, even before then, what is it that you want them to do and to be able to do?

And who are they in this moment, right? They've, for sure, experienced tremendous loss and also have learned these amazing things. Dr. Ernest Morrell posed a series of questions we should ask kids about their pandemic lives. And what kids have learned during the pandemic that they've sort of self-taught is incredible. And so how do we build on those experiences, and how do we connect them back to text or push them along with text?

KAREN SCHER: So can I ask you a logistical question about that?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Sure.

KAREN SCHER: So you're getting ready-- in your situation, you're working in a summer academy. We have teachers on the call who are thinking about how to start the school year. What are some of the general practices about how you invite students to tell you what they need? Like, are there particular ways that you can invite them to share what they're interested in or what they're curious about? How do you bring your students into the conversation that helps you determine text selection.

KIMBERLY PARKER: Right, well, first, you have to value what they say. I think that it all starts with a deep love and appreciation of kids. And, I mean, a serious one. Not just a, "I'm checking this off to say that I had student input." But asking them how the experience has been for them.

That's why, again, I point to those questions that Dr. Ernest Morrell posed. I think they're on Twitter somewhere. But ask them. And, also, they will tell you. I feel like young people-- and even little ones are pretty honest about what we think and want and feel and need. And we should start with them.

And so to build the surveys-- however, I mean, this is a great time to leverage technology too. Teachers on this call I'm sure are brilliant at figuring out how to use technology to get students to respond. So what are the ways that actually enable them to tell us a little bit about themselves? But also in ways that don't make them feel like they have to lay themselves bare for us.

I would like to know what they learned and how they define learning and what they want to do. And then to really sort of build a curriculum with them and around them. And you can do both things. It's not like you have to do one or the other.

It's looking too at your plans for the year to come, and saying, where can I really hold students at the center and also get them to where they need to go? Get them to where they need to go being defined by what you know about your kids, what you know about standards, what you know about everything else.

KAREN SCHER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's a real balancing act, right? Because there are so many complicating factors. And so one of those I wanted to ask you about is-- a challenge I hear in my work with teachers is that they don't have a choice in what they teach. They're limited by what's dictated by their school, their district, or state, or they're bound by what is available in the book room.

I remember feeling that way in my first year teaching. I was like, OK, well, here are the books I have.

KIMBERLY PARKER: When they open the door, and they're like, here it is.

KAREN SCHER: Here it is. And I was like, wow, OK. Well, I'll start with this and figure it out from there. So what advice do you have for teachers who have to teach certain books or who work in schools that lack the resources to purchase new ones? And I know those are two separate-- maybe you want to tackle each of those one at a time.

KIMBERLY PARKER: Maybe start with the ones who they have to teach text. I mean, I think that this is where it's-- Donald and Miller called it being creatively compliant. And so thinking about, in terms of the books that you have to teach, like, do you have to teach all of them? Do you have to spend a lot of class time on them? Can you sort of decentralize that text to do more with other texts?

And, again, that's why it's really nice to have a broad definition of text because that allows you to have a little bit more complexity and flexibility. But yes, I hear you. I hear you in saying, OK, so these are the core texts for next year.

I would think about like-- I don't know. Maybe you assign them to have kids read on their own. Maybe they read them in book clubs with something else. I would think about how do you bring a choice? Both for yourself because, again, teachers are doing that decision making.

And then also to give it to kids because maybe then-- I know teachers have done a classics book club or those are the rotating circles where you're focusing the whole class on a different text but then letting those other sort of core texts move to the back. But you're still teaching them.

And then also maybe you just isolate parts of it. Maybe you teach excerpts. Maybe you, again, figure out a way where you don't spend an inordinate amount of time on it. And, again, we shouldn't really I think be spending more than three or four weeks on any text in the first place because we want kids to be fluent readers and writers. And just like beating a horse to death because we want all of the motifs to be found in a text not necessarily what we should be doing.

And then it's for you said, for people-- what was the second part?

KAREN SCHER: For people whose schools don't have the resources to be infusing new books, especially class sets. Are there some creative ways that teachers can still sort of populate their classroom with books that are culturally responsive, relevant, highly engaging, that are representing groups that have historically been marginalized? Do you have advice for those teachers?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah, I mean, I think also it's really important for teachers to be reading as much as you can so you know what books you want in your classroom. I mean, all books are not created the same. I used to just have books. I would think, "oh, books" in my classroom library. But they're not necessarily books that kids want to read.

You want to find out what are the books, first of all, that will resonate with your students, and then build your library sort of simultaneously as you go. Teachers are really creative. I know that they do fundraising drives. I know the publishers will often give books away. So if you have a nice lead on a publisher, you can ask them to send you books.

I know that the advanced readers copies often float around and you can get those for your libraries. I know too that sometimes people have done like wishlists and things. It just gets on my nerves how teachers have to beg for books for their kids. Those are the things we should be doing.

Also, I feel like if teachers want to be-- I'm sure teachers on this call, but grant writing, right? There are all of these sort of little grants that sort of float around either like a rotary or a PTA group that oftentimes, they will give money to teachers to buy books for your classroom.

And what I would say too is, work with your libraries. Some of our local library-- the school libraries if you have access to one, and then even your city or town library will often try if they are invested to get you those books too. So it requires a little bit more work, but it is not impossible. Because, I mean, I think that more people than we even have discovered are willing to invest and get books to teachers.

KAREN SCHER: That's great. Thank you. And I just want to echo, teachers should not have to beg for books. I could not agree more.

I was so excited when I got-- I did it donors choose, and I got a class set of The Namesake by Jhumpa Lahiri because I really wanted to teach that book. But in retrospect, I'm really grateful that I was able to do that and also wish that it hadn't had to be the case and the teachers should just have access to the books that they want. It's a structural issue.

KIMBERLY PARKER: And then I applaud people like Penny Kittle who does the Book Club Foundation Grant, which I got a couple of years ago. And that essentially made it possible for me to really build my classroom library. And, you know, there's just not enough money for that. I feel like Penny would probably give so many more libraries to teachers if the funding allowed. We need to do more.

KAREN SCHER: I agree. I do want to pause. There was a question that I got from a colleague asking for those questions from Ernest Morrell. And so I just want to share those real quick.

So Ernest Morrell is a professor at Notre Dame. And he posted on Twitter, these questions that we could ask our students as they are coming back into schools after this very traumatic couple of years. He says, what if we asked every kid in America next fall as an assignment to tell us what they learned during the pandemic-- how they grew, how they are different, and what they wanted to do next. They could represent this multimodality and share within community.

KIMBERLY PARKER: It's really, really powerful. And the multimodal part, I think, is a really great way for kids to show their own skills. And if you don't-- I mean, I try not to have too many barriers when I ask them to do these things. And they, again, they do amazing things, and they tell us. They tell us what they need.

KAREN SCHER: Right. And who they are through the choices that they're making.

KIMBERLY PARKER: And I think too that-- I'm sorry, I'll finish. But that part-- it sort of makes us think really hard about learning loss-- that narrative, which I don't necessarily subscribe to. Yes, things have been lost, and look at what kids have gained if we just ask them to tell us.

KAREN SCHER: That's right. That's right. Absolutely.

So I'd love to-- we've talked a bit about text selection and book selection and how we get our books. But I'd love to talk a little bit about pedagogy. So at Facing History, we spend a lot of time helping teachers understand how to build student-centered classrooms through engaging pedagogy.

So once our teachers have chosen the texts that they're going to teach, are their pedagogical strategies that we can bring to our classroom that help students read texts through a critical and ethical lens? In other words, what might it look like and sound like in a classroom as we read a text together.

KIMBERLY PARKER: Oh, I love that question. So I feel like, first, before you have any of those sort of "look like and sound like," you have to lay the groundwork for them to be able to talk about any text. And so, for me, the starting point is relationship building, real relationship building. Not just to say we value relationships. But really to build a community.

First to define a community together with them and to think about what happens when the community is frayed. How do you resolve conflict? I think that's a big piece, right?

I think young people want to be in right relationship with each other, but we don't necessarily spend a lot of time helping them to resolve conflict. And I think a lot of the work coming out of restorative justice can be useful there. But it starts there with thinking about how do you come together. And trying too to figure out what are their relationships with reading.

I work with kids and I have worked with kids who-- something along the way has caused a rupture in their reading lives. It's not their fault. It has happened to them.

And to think about who was responsible, right? Like what are sort of the next steps, and to acknowledge that harm happened. And what can you do in this community with them to be-- before you even begin to have conversations, to understand who they are as readers and writers and how do you sort of hold that as a center to make reading and writing a positive experience for them that they know that they can engage in.

And, then, from there, you teach them how to have dialogue about text. How to read oftentimes. How to talk about it. And it's from practice. I would do lots of like pairs-- pairs and practice, pairs and practice. Rituals and routines-- lots of that before then sort of expanding the circle.

Also, I don't make things punitive. So if something is really important, for example, being able to sort of go back and forth and disagree, you're going to practice it. And you're going to watch it in real life.

Maybe you're going to like watch a video clip of something and then talk about it and sort of distill what's going on. That's our mentor text. And then practice it and then apply it to a text. So you're moving back and forth also with lots of reflection, lots of problem solving, lots of being able to say, OK, this is what it is, this is what it isn't.

Same way with writing-- writing workshop. I'm a writing workshop person, so there's lots of writing all the time. Because, again, kids have fear about writing and it's because when they're not writing enough and they're not writing in ways that are authentic.

I was sort of railing with someone about what is sort of on my nerves right now is that my young people this summer talk about the writing that we are doing together is creative writing. I said, it is not creative writing. This is like writing in the real world. This is the way that we write.

The writing that you were doing in school is often not real writing, right? It is a particular genre that you spend all year doing. You're just writing a five paragraph essay all year long.

There are-- look at these other ways that people are writing. Look at the things you were reading. Those are not written in five paragraph essay form. What do you think about that? That's not creative writing. Yeah, so it's those-- habits, routines, practice, to then get to all of the literary analysis and everything else we do with text.

KAREN SCHER: Yes. I would love to discourage the five paragraph essay as the singular writing modality in schools. It's obviously a skill, but it doesn't have to be the only skill.

Can you say a little bit about writing workshop just for folks on the call who aren't familiar with that as a practice?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Sure, and I think it's more-- I think writing workshop is interesting because I don't know if so many secondary teachers use it as much as elementary and middle school teachers do. But it's a process of writing with kids where it's about the process, where you are always writing.

And I use Peter Elbow's sort of language of low stakes, medium stakes, high stakes writing. And writing kids mostly need to do with low stakes writing. And that's like writer's notebook, first draft writing, just practice writing because then writing doesn't become this terrible thing that is then so fraught with performance.

And so in writing workshop, that's what you do. You read a mentor text. You are writing. You are conferencing. You are always working on something.

And, you know, kids become writers. I mean they're writers anyway, but they really oftentimes will step into their writer's voices in that space because they have the time, they have the feedback, they have the encouragement to really develop.

KAREN SCHER: I've loved being in classrooms where writers workshop is kind of at the center because it's so clear that writing is an iterative process that sort of almost never ends. Like, you do eventually get to a draft that you're going to call your final draft. But it really inverts the process from I just want to write this thing, put it through spell check, and be done, right?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Right. Right. And that's not writing. And, also, I think that as teachers we need to write. We really need to write and we need to read. I feel like we do so much damage when we don't do the thing we want our kids to do.

And I'm not saying do every assignment. Though when I was really on my game, I would draft a couple of things just so I could talk them through my own thinking. But I think the thing about it is that we don't-- it's easy to divorce real writing from the writing we do in schools because we don't do it ourselves. We are not necessarily going to sit down and write anyone a five paragraph essay.

And I understand the standardized testing is a thing. I've been there. I've done that. And, also, it doesn't have to be the only thing that takes up our school year.

KAREN SCHER: That's right. That's right. It's so important. So one more question and then I'm going to open it up for some questions from our audience.

So, at Facing History, as you know having been a friend of Facing History for a long time, we encourage young people to understand what it means to develop civic agency. So could you talk a bit about how literature can help students strengthen their civic muscles and understand their own agency?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah, I mean, I think that, first of all, choice is a big one for agency. As much as we can, I feel like we need to give kids choice about what they read. I understand that cannot happen all the time, but as much as possible. That develops agency.

Then, too, it's through the characters that we think about. It's the text that we are reading. And it's the conversations that we have that really encourage us to think about, does this character have agency, or does this character have not?

And I think also in your question is sort of a challenge for us to think about the text that we have currently that we are putting in front of kids and to think about where are the places where characters do have agency. Who are those characters? Are they Black? Are they Latinx? Are they working class? Are they queer?

And if those are not-- if those characters don't have agency or they're side characters or they're sort of being sacrificed for white saviorism, then I don't know if those are the books that are really going to teach about agency. And that then challenges us to do something different.

KAREN SCHER: Yes. OK, Kim, there are some incredible questions coming from our participants. So I'm going to just try my best to get to a bunch of them knowing that there will be so many that I won't be able to get to them all. So here is the first question from one of our audience members.

Actually, let's start with this one. It's a fun one. So what's a new book or author that has stuck with you lately and why?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Oh, I love this. I love this question. I read The Secret Lives of Church Ladies by Deesha Philyaw. And it's a collection of short stories.

And, first of all, the pandemic was hard for me to find my reading rhythm, and I felt really bad about that until I finally just forgave myself and said, just try something. And so I picked up a lot of books that didn't resonate with me, and that one was the one that got me out of my pandemic reading rut because, one, it's short. So a collection, I think, of seven stories about Black women and their every day. And it's a range of Black women. That was just delightful and so well-written. So, again, The Secret Lives of Church Ladies, I loved it, and I highly recommend it.

KAREN SCHER: Amazing. I'm not going to pause to put it on my Goodreads list right now, but as soon as we're done--

KIMBERLY PARKER: It's so good.

KAREN SCHER: Thank you for that. OK, so onto a slightly more serious question, although book recommendations are always serious. So, OK, how can we discuss difficult topics and experiences-- and some examples include racism, sexism, trauma-- without retraumatizing or triggering our students?

KIMBERLY PARKER: It's a great question. I think that, first of all, we need to be aware of who's in the room. We need to think about why we are teaching a particular text.

I know that Dr. Stephanie Jones has the idea of curriculum violence. Are we thinking that teaching the texts is worth curriculum violence? And I think for so many students who have experienced curriculum violence any way already to this point, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. So, first, I would decide, do we really need to teach this text.

And then if retraumatization is a risk, then, again, do we need to teach this text? I would think maybe, no. And, then, what are the sort of ways that if we insist on teaching that text, that we are prepared to handle it with students, with communities, with parents, with everyone else.

I just think that there are other texts that we can use. It goes back to the "why." Why would we risk it? It's never worth it as far as I'm concerned because it takes a really experienced teacher to do that. I don't know if sort of across the board, everyone is getting the preparation that they need. So it's not worth it for the kids. And there are so many other texts we could be using.

KAREN SCHER: So I want to pull on a few of those threads. I see some questions that I think connect to things that you just talked about but narrowing our focus a bit. So there were a bunch of questions about To Kill a Mockingbird, and so I just wanted to sort of roll this up into one-- sorry, in two parts.

So some folks are choosing not to teach To Kill a Mockingbird for different reasons-- perhaps the white savior narrative, perhaps the repeated use of the n-word. And so if teachers have the choice, what's your take on what to do with Mockingbird? And going back to what we were talking about earlier, if it's part of the required curriculum, what say you about using that book?

KIMBERLY PARKER: OK, so if you have a choice, I would ask, why this book now? Why are you insisting that the book needs to be taught now, and are there other choices you can make? Usually, the answer is yes. Particularly if you have a choice. And, usually, it's something like, I love the book.

I think it's interesting too to think about who kids are as readers at this moment and also coming out of a pandemic even for the fall or the next year. Is this the book they need to read given the last two years? Can other books do something else that To Kill a Mockingbird cannot? I say yes.

So I would think about choice-- do you have to? And make a different choice. And then also if you decide to teach it, I think there are some really great critical literacy resources. I know that Facing History has some. I know that Lorena Herrmann-- one of our Disrupt Text co-founder writes about it extensively too. We've done a Twitter chat about it for Disrupt text. So there are resources to really sort of teach it from a critical lens.

And, again, I always wonder, that's a lot of time and energy. That's a lot of time and energy that maybe too that could be spent on another text. What a great time for exploration and opportunity.

The a second was-- what was the second one?

KAREN SCHER: The second question is, what if you don't have a choice? What if it is part of the mandated curriculum?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Right, so if you don't have a choice. I would say sort of the same thing-- critical literacy lens, pairing with it I think Just Mercy is a really great one to pair with. And there's Just Mercy for grown ups and then there's a young readers version. So we can have it both ways. But Bryan Stevenson's book is incredible.

But I would use the resources, and really sort of dig into it. And also know the history of the time and sort of trace it before that and into the present moment because I think understanding historical context always informs the present. Like, I feel like nothing now is happening that we don't have history to say, oh, this is how we got here. And I think kids need to know that too.

KAREN SCHER: Yeah. So stepping away from Mockingbird specifically, but building on something you just said-- there was actually a conversation during our seminar actually earlier today about text pairing. And I think some teachers are curious about what does that look like in practice to pair texts in a classroom? And I know that's something I've really learned a lot about from Disrupt Text, so can you speak to sort of the practicalities of pairing texts?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Sure, I pull out parts from say, text A, and then put it-- sometimes I use big paper. I'll just cut things out, make a copy of the text. Cut things out paste them together.

And have kids do-- this is why I love some of the Facing History protocols. I've used them. There's a big paper protocol that you just for walk them through that. What are the differences? What are the similarities? And then you discuss. You can have silent paper discussions about them.

Really, what it comes down to is what are the parts of text A that you really want to spend time thinking about with kids, and then what are sort of the contemporary pieces-- music, podcast, whatever, film, or another poem, another YA text, another contemporary text, another nonfiction piece, the possibilities are endless-- that you can put into conversation. So when I think of text pairing, I think of what are the texts that you can put into conversation with each other to talk about a particular topic?

KAREN SCHER: That's great. That's great. I also remember doing a lot of cutting and pasting onto a big chart paper and making my students walk around. It's fun.

KIMBERLY PARKER: It's great. I feel like that's still one that is pretty solid and that also can be adapted to online environments, which is nice.

KAREN SCHER: Yes. OK, so-- did you see my cat? She's making a guest appearance.

KIMBERLY PARKER: I thought mine was going to. He was walking across.

KAREN SCHER: It's a cat Day. OK, so there's a question that says-- oh, I love this question-- what do you see as the role of the school librarian in selecting texts and student agency?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah, I mean, I have loved my librarians. I've loved working with librarians because also if you have like a librarian who is down for the cause, they can get books in ways sometimes that you can't. I've had librarians who would also be able to work with the local bookstore and would get ARCs. So they would just bring them over and sort of funnel them into classrooms.

KAREN SCHER: And those our Advanced Reader Copies, right?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Advanced Reader Copies, right. I think the librarians, too, are able to help teachers know what's out there. That's what I would always appreciate. My librarians know what I'm into. They also know where I'm trying to grow, right? I'm trying to grow in my science fiction knowledge, for example, because that's really what my students were into and so I'm learning-- growing, growing here. But librarians know that stuff, so they're happy to help.

I think what happens is that a lot of-- either teachers don't have time, or they don't understand all the things that librarians can do. And librarians are really good at those skills. So that's how I would always be welcoming to them, is to be like, hey, what's new in the world of YA lit that-- particularly like, I'm looking for, for example, a queer kid YA lit where it's not trauma. I feel like it's like this hashtag, hashtag, hashtag, hashtag. Can you help me find this? And they would be like, oh, here's a list.

It's in those ways that I think librarians can be really, really powerful. And also for advocating for the rights of readers and how teachers can help to frame anything that they're thinking about.

KAREN SCHER: That's great. That's great. OK, so there have been a bunch of questions about parental involvement in classrooms. And so let's go with this one, and then I might add another after. So how do you choose texts that may not be accepted or push-buttons in your community. How do you talk to parents about the importance of introducing different voices?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah, parents, caregivers-- this is a great one. I think that we have to think-- first, it depends on what our communities are. I know people like to be asked about things. But I think that we have to think about what we want to ask them about.

Also, I think a lot of people don't feel like there's the feeling that things are being sprung upon you. I think as much as possible, I try to aim to be transparent. This is what I'm teaching this semester. These are the goals. Ideally, in this year, we're thinking about identity. I want to help your child strengthen their critical thinking skills or analytical skills, et cetera. We use these books to do that.

And I invite and welcome a conversation. I have to get real clear on why I'm picking the things I'm picking before I can have conversations with parents. So that's what I would encourage. If you're really determined to teach a book, then also think about what are you going to say to people who don't want you to teach that book.

It's doing the things we want kids to be able to do is to have a conversation. And I'll always have a conversation about it. I mean, I might not change my mind about the decision that I have a book because this is what we're going to do, and parents always have the option to do what's best for their children, which is great. But, also, I think that this is where departments have to work together.

What I worry about is that teachers are doing this stuff in their classrooms and they don't have the support of the administrators. And then it gets real, real messy. So I wonder if there are other teachers within that department that can make decisions together that their department head can help them. Maybe the department has a statement about the decisions that they are making, that they invite public comment. Go to the community.

And, also, sometimes, as much as possible, to get the books to parents. Depending on who you serve or who we are teaching, I mean, it might not be so hard to say, OK, we're going to make copies available working with librarians and libraries to read the books along with us. Have conversations. Again, it depends on how much time and energy folks have. And I know the time and energy is at a premium.

Parents aren't necessarily the enemy. Lots of times, they want what's best for their children, and that looks different for everyone. And, also, our work as educators is to make sure that we are helping young people to do these skills and foster these dispositions in our spaces.

KAREN SCHER: Right. So just one more question kind of in that domain, which is-- there's someone who's asking the question-- there are some parents who are really demanding conversations about why race and racism are being taught in their schools and asking for administrators and teachers to meet with them to justify, why do we have to put our kids through this, and even extending to sort of bringing in questions about critical race theory and so forth. So I'm just curious what suggestions do you have on how to approach parents in that particular circumstance?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Yeah. And, again, it's good that if this is all sort of within a department, so it's not just a teacher sort of undergoing this-- but, also, I would want to what do they think is happening in classrooms, right? Like I know that Zoom school has made sort of everyone listening a little bit more public.

But I would want to know, what is it you think we're doing and what are your big concerns? Again, people oftentimes just want to be heard. And maybe that's a conversation for your admin to have that then trickles down to teachers.

Ideally, this would be a departmental and school-wide discussion. Why do we make the decisions that we make? Who are the young people we're trying to grow and develop in our spaces, and what do they need? That's how we can frame the conversation I think.

Sure, right, like when we're not talking about race and racism, we're still talking about race and racism even if we don't name it. But then the given is what it is, and look where that's gotten us. So I think that that's the conversation.

And then seeing if everyone could be on the same page of the hand mill talking about it. Because I think what happens is that people sort of do their own thing and then we have to deal with it. But those are real sort of philosophical discussions that we should be having as practitioners and as departments about why are we making the decisions, what are we going to tell people, and what are we sort of willing to go to the mat for?

Because I've seen departments who have said, look, this is who we are. This is what we believe that children need. And this is what we're going to do. I've seen it. And then I think it's harder to then sort of pick off individual people because that's the statement that the department has made.

KAREN SCHER: Right, it's a unified effort. Yeah. It's really helpful. Thank you so much.

So here's a question that I love. I love all the questions. I am not discriminating. They're all amazing.

So a teacher says, I have been asked by my students if we can read, quote unquote, "less depressing books." What suggestions do you have for joyful books about justice?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Oh, right, well, you know, justice? Depends on how old they are. Justice can look different. If you ask my seven-year-old, justice looks very different than my 17-year-olds. But some of the sort of tenants are the same.

I think there are lots of-- I mean, YA is great for thinking about justice. I've read-- what am I r-- Ben Philippe, he wrote Charming as a Verb and The Secret Lives of the American-- not the secret lives, but The Field Guide to the North American Teenager. Both are fantastic for thinking about issues of justice.

I think actually that lots of YA gets to issues of justice. And justice being like teen related, like do you cheat on the SAT to get into the college that you want? Do you not tell the truth about yourself because you don't want people to really know?

There was a book I read about-- oh, it's called, Excuse Me While I Ugly Cry. And it was delicious for thinking about issues of justice and right and wrong. Like is it right to steal someone's journal and then post it on Instagram? Justice. Like justice in ways that they get.

And then you just build your library around that. I'm just talking about YA because that's sort of where I am at the moment. But those are the books. I feel like we should just start where the kids are. What they want to read. And, sure, there are lots of other really great contemporary stuff that also works for them.

I just know that when kids are reading like Gabi, a Girl in Pieces, which is a little bit older by Isabelle Quintero, but also gets to that in really powerful ways still.

KAREN SCHER: So more books-- more books for the book list.

KIMBERLY PARKER: I'm sorry.

KAREN SCHER: No, don't be. It's amazing. OK, so I'm going to bundle up a couple of questions here, which is to say, a couple of people of asking about is there still a place for a canonical book? And also-- no, let's just leave it at that. Is there still a place for a canonical book? And could you explain what it means to disrupt a canonical text?

KIMBERLY PARKER: OK, great question. As you could tell, I had to like--

KAREN SCHER: Get ready.

KIMBERLY PARKER: Is there a place for canonical text? Yes. There are still canonical texts that I love to teach. Karen, weren't we talking about Frankenstein?

KAREN SCHER: We were, yes.

KIMBERLY PARKER: So let's just take that one. I love teaching Frankenstein < span m='3021230'>still to this day. I know. I know, right? Like, it's one of those texts that you're like, do kids need it? I would say, yes. And I would teach it through a Disrupt Text lens of thinking about what are all of the ways that science is problematic.

And look at today. You would even track it to today to thinking about people and vaccines, right? Hesitancy. So you could teach it right next to contemporary real-world events. And I think that's the conversation. That's my pairing.

But I also like to give-- that's one that I would not give kids to read on their own, right? Frankenstein is hard. It's hard for me still sometimes if I'm not like in like in that space. But I do think there is space for canonical texts and everything else. So what I always will advocate for is both.

And also what we have to remember, what I know, is that kids aren't necessarily reading those canonical texts. You can ask them. They're not reading them. They're reading SparkNotes. They're reading all of those other sort of crib sheets, whatever they're called. Now, I really feel old because I'm calling them crib sheets. But I don't know, and they don't even use SparkNotes now. They use something else.

But whatever it is, they're not reading the actual text. And so we have to think about like, "what?" Is this the best use of their time? And if they're going to read those things anyway, how do we use them as a tool to get them to do other things?

Because, I don't know about you, but I don't necessarily want to raise or to support the development of young people who are SparkNotes readers. I want them to deeply engage with literature. I ultimately want them to love literacy and be really powerful readers and writers. And they're not going to do that by reading SparkNotes. They're just not.

KAREN SCHER: OK, so here's our-- I think this will be our last question. So I would love for you to impart some words of wisdom, right? And more words of-- all-- it's just been gems all through. But as teachers and students enter this year after so much disruption and upheaval, what words of encouragement would you send their way?

KIMBERLY PARKER: Oh, yeah. First of all, I think that teachers and students are amazing. I've always believed in teachers and students. And I think, in this past year, I have been so encouraged that they have kept teaching. Y'all have kept going. And so have the kids.

So I think that that's what I would say, is to be encouraged, look at what you have come through, and look at this next year as as much of an opportunity as you can to do something different. The kids are different. We are different. It's a very different landscape than when we started this whole thing.

And, yes, it's still sort of unknown. And this is an opportunity to say, I'm going to try something different. I'm going to really attend to the needs of my kids because kids need us in ways that they might not have needed us before. And I hope that doesn't sort of trickle down into punitive measures. Just remember, you're going to have to rebuild.

And relationships-- I know people are always like, relationships aren't the thing. But, really, relationships are the thing. And so if we take the time to get to know who our young people and our kids are, that's never a waste of time. In fact, I think it's the most important use of our time we ever could have, particularly going into this next year.

And I believe y'all. And we need you, so please keep going. But, wait, also rest. Like please keep going, but rest first. Because if you don't rest, then you ain't going to make it. And we need you to make it.

KAREN SCHER: Thank you so much. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much Dr. Kim Parker. You are amazing and brilliant. And I'm so fortunate and lucky that you decided to come join us today. And so on behalf of Facing History, I just want to thank you so much for being here.

So I'm going to take us into a few closing pieces here. So I want to invite our audience to continue learning with us. And so we have resources at the bottom of your screen. You can see there's a resource widget that has resources, including Disrupt Texts and other resources that we touched on today.

I also want to highlight the fact that Facing History just, just, just-- a week ago-- published a new set of resources called Coming of Age in a Complex World, and I would encourage all of you to go check out that resource collection. It is in the resource list. You'll also be getting an email with all of these resources so you can rest assured that you will be getting these as well. And this webinar will be recorded and archived, so you can always come back to it if you want to take a second listen or watch.

And so I just want to say thank you one more time and also invite you to a few upcoming events. In a couple of weeks, we have a webinar called examining immigration and identity with Jose Antonio Vargas who, among other things, is the author of an incredible memoir called Dear America. That's on July 29.

And we also have a webinar coming up in early August for teachers to think about what it looks like to build community by prioritizing student's social emotional needs and that will highlight our back to school tool kit. So please consider coming and joining us at those upcoming webinars.

And with that, I will say thank you once more for attending. And I'm going to play a closing video and wish you all well. Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining us for this learning opportunity. The resources from the webinar can be accessed from the resource list window. You will receive an email with links to these resources after the webinar. Your completion of this webinar gives you one hour of professional development credit, and you can download your certificate of participation via the window below.

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